Comments on: Episode 54 http://www.velocast.co.uk/podcasts/episode-54 A Cycling Podcast Featuring The Week's Road, Urban & Mountain Bike News Fri, 10 Sep 2010 20:12:21 +0200 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: VeloCast http://www.velocast.co.uk/podcasts/episode-54/comment-page-1#comment-398 VeloCast Sat, 28 Nov 2009 00:21:27 +0000 http://www.velocast.co.uk/?p=509#comment-398 Hi, thanks for commenting.<br> You may be correct in saying that cycle lanes have helped normalise cycling on the continent but I think you've put the cart before the horse. Proper cycle planning and cyclists having the respect of other users stem from a society where the bike is a "normal" form of transport, not the other way around. The reason cycle lanes work in Holland, Germany, Denmark etc is that these countries have a long established culture of using the bicycle as transport that far predates the introduction of "protected" cycleways. Most of the really impressive cycle/ car co-existence I've seen on the continent have been in urban centres that have no physical provision for cycles on the road either through choice or due to the fact that the city centres are so old they can't fit lanes in. Ultimately it all comes down to culture.<br> So, let's take a look at a completely different culture, ours in Scotland, or most of the US.<br>Here, the bicycle is seen as a toy or recreation, most planners aren't cyclists, most drivers barely walk to a nearby shop. With the result that, even in relatively far sighted examples of urban planning (My home town of Edinburgh has tried to be very pro bike) we have poorly designed lanes which are also poorly maintained. Many in Edinburgh have become puncture alleys. Motorists don't respect the lanes so they park across them. I don't know a single cyclist in Edinburgh who regards more than a handful of the lanes as useful, it may be different in other UK cities, but I doubt it. Even more worrying is that the provision of "protected" paths may indeed lead to the segregation of cyclists and encourage a mindset where the motorist regards you as even more of an intruder on the road because he thinks "You've got your own lane, what are you doing on my road!!".<br>Again, all down to culture. <br>Protected lanes work on the continent because they were introduced into a society with a very different mindset towards cyclists. Here in the UK and in most of the 'States we're beginning from a very different point. Segregation of cyclists is not the answer in our society if we want to normalise cycling, changes in attitude from both the cyclist and the motorist need to be far more fundamental than that. Here, we don't even have a cake yet, the prospect of eating it as well seems a long way away.<br><br>John Hi, thanks for commenting.
You may be correct in saying that cycle lanes have helped normalise cycling on the continent but I think you've put the cart before the horse. Proper cycle planning and cyclists having the respect of other users stem from a society where the bike is a “normal” form of transport, not the other way around. The reason cycle lanes work in Holland, Germany, Denmark etc is that these countries have a long established culture of using the bicycle as transport that far predates the introduction of “protected” cycleways. Most of the really impressive cycle/ car co-existence I've seen on the continent have been in urban centres that have no physical provision for cycles on the road either through choice or due to the fact that the city centres are so old they can't fit lanes in. Ultimately it all comes down to culture.
So, let's take a look at a completely different culture, ours in Scotland, or most of the US.
Here, the bicycle is seen as a toy or recreation, most planners aren't cyclists, most drivers barely walk to a nearby shop. With the result that, even in relatively far sighted examples of urban planning (My home town of Edinburgh has tried to be very pro bike) we have poorly designed lanes which are also poorly maintained. Many in Edinburgh have become puncture alleys. Motorists don't respect the lanes so they park across them. I don't know a single cyclist in Edinburgh who regards more than a handful of the lanes as useful, it may be different in other UK cities, but I doubt it. Even more worrying is that the provision of “protected” paths may indeed lead to the segregation of cyclists and encourage a mindset where the motorist regards you as even more of an intruder on the road because he thinks “You've got your own lane, what are you doing on my road!!”.
Again, all down to culture.
Protected lanes work on the continent because they were introduced into a society with a very different mindset towards cyclists. Here in the UK and in most of the 'States we're beginning from a very different point. Segregation of cyclists is not the answer in our society if we want to normalise cycling, changes in attitude from both the cyclist and the motorist need to be far more fundamental than that. Here, we don't even have a cake yet, the prospect of eating it as well seems a long way away.

John

]]> By: t1mmyb http://www.velocast.co.uk/podcasts/episode-54/comment-page-1#comment-397 t1mmyb Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:33:28 +0000 http://www.velocast.co.uk/?p=509#comment-397 I can't quite wrap my head around the fact that you like Mikael C-A's desire to make cycling "normal" yet come out against protected (I could say segregated but it's a divisive word) cycle lanes/tracks/paths, when they're one of the things that have helped make cycling normal in CPH (as well as in NL).<br><br>I don't think you can have your cake and eat it... I can't quite wrap my head around the fact that you like Mikael C-A's desire to make cycling “normal” yet come out against protected (I could say segregated but it's a divisive word) cycle lanes/tracks/paths, when they're one of the things that have helped make cycling normal in CPH (as well as in NL).

I don't think you can have your cake and eat it…

]]> By: StumpyRider http://www.velocast.co.uk/podcasts/episode-54/comment-page-1#comment-382 StumpyRider Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:05:54 +0000 http://www.velocast.co.uk/?p=509#comment-382 I remember the advice of my driving instructor being to give a cyclist "the width of his wobble", which on hindsight is scary indeed. I guess a BoW would be safe enough on that basis tho'. I remember the advice of my driving instructor being to give a cyclist “the width of his wobble”, which on hindsight is scary indeed. I guess a BoW would be safe enough on that basis tho'.

]]> By: Macluskie http://www.velocast.co.uk/podcasts/episode-54/comment-page-1#comment-381 Macluskie Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:57:35 +0000 http://www.velocast.co.uk/?p=509#comment-381 Just a note about your comment that it's legal to ride two abreast. On the cub run on Sunday, 8 of us were riding through Galston (South of Glasgow) on our way to Strathaven when a police van with lights flashing pulled up beside us from the rear and shouted out the window to get into single file. <br><br>Naturally we obliged for the minute or two they watched us then as soon as they were gone we slotted back into pairs. <br><br>Seems the police don't even know the rules<br><br>Steve Just a note about your comment that it's legal to ride two abreast. On the cub run on Sunday, 8 of us were riding through Galston (South of Glasgow) on our way to Strathaven when a police van with lights flashing pulled up beside us from the rear and shouted out the window to get into single file.

Naturally we obliged for the minute or two they watched us then as soon as they were gone we slotted back into pairs.

Seems the police don't even know the rules

Steve

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